The Heart of Service with Alex Simpson

In this episode, Alex Simpson (Production Manager, CCV), sits down to discuss how to overcome gatekeeping in the creative industry, finding joy in your role no matter whether you're pushing space bar on a computer or operating high-end tech at a mega-church event, and that one time she took on her first LED wall build armed only with 5 road cases of LED, a YouTube tutorial, and some initiative.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:11 Alex's Story
• 18:29 What She's Up to Now
• 21:22 Separating Faith from the Work
• 25:24 Gatekeeping in the Creative Industry
• 31:48 Dedication to Learning the Craft
• 43:53 Embracing Your Role No Matter How Big or Small

Transcript

Bailee Wishart (00:01.23)
What's up guys? Welcome to the Creative Christian Podcast. I'm your host, Bailee Wishart, and today I have the absolute honor of introducing our guest as always. She is a graduate of Wichita State University and a product of the incredible internship program over at Life.Church in Edmond, Oklahoma. She recently made the trip out west to take on the role of production manager at one of Christchurch of the Valley's 18 Phoenix Valley locations. And I am also honored to call her a very good friend. So.

I'm so excited to welcome Alex Simpson to the show. Alex, thanks for being here.

Alex Simpson (00:35.426)
Thank you for having me.

Bailee Wishart (00:37.498)
Yeah, I'm super excited. I know that we've gotten to kind of talk a little bit about, um, does our collective interests and, um, you know, church production and the arts and, and all that type of stuff, obviously we share that in common, that's kind of how our friendship kicked off, but I haven't really gotten to dive super deep with you yet in our friendship talking about this, I think at the granular detail we're going to talk about today. So I'm excited to do that and even better than we get to do it on camera. So, um,

Alex Simpson (00:44.674)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (01:04.874)
But I love to just kick off every episode just by diving into our guest story, just first and foremost, just kind of get to know you, help our audience get to know you. So how did you find faith? How did you get started in the creative arts? And what was the point where those two things really started to intersect in your life?

Alex Simpson (01:20.022)
Yeah, so I grew up in a Christian home. My parents always brought me to church as long as I can absolutely remember. So I grew up in a smaller Presbyterian church in Edmond, Oklahoma. I started going there around second or third grade. So about when I can remember going to church. And the first thing I can remember about attending that church is doing the children's musical. So our church did a musical every year for the kids.

And I was already super into like theater and art and everything that was just like my niche when I was growing up. So my parents put me in the children's musical and I absolutely loved it. I did it all throughout elementary school. But our church had a really like big emphasis on like the arts and getting kids involved with that as well. So that was super, super great. But yeah, growing up I did theater. That was like my main thing. And then

Bailee Wishart (02:02.99)
It's awesome.

Bailee Wishart (02:12.546)
That's awesome.

Alex Simpson (02:18.182)
I really loved singing and drawing and stuff like that. So in middle and high school, I was really involved in choir and theater. And so that's kind of what translated into like what my interests were at church. Starting in high school, I joined the youth worship band and I was a singer for that for a couple of years. While I was in high school, I started to

to get really involved with my youth group. And part of that was over the summer, we would go on mission trips or like camp trips. In my junior year, we started going to a camp called Generate. It's hosted by YM360. It's a great camp. Essentially what it is a company like YM360 and Generate hosts a location. It's like, hey, churches, bring your youth groups and we'll host you guys and we'll do all the activities and worship and stuff like that.

And so the first camp that I went to was in South Padre Island, Texas. And it was at a conference center and we made it a whole like missions thing and did some serving while we were down there, but it was just a great experience. And that was really my first experience in like live Christian worship settings. And I thought it was like super fun as a junior in high school. Like you're just jumping around being crazy. Like it's like a concert. It's great.

Bailee Wishart (03:19.011)
Let's go.

Bailee Wishart (03:38.85)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (03:45.045)
Right.

Alex Simpson (03:45.714)
awesome, Ed Newton of CBC, Community Bible Church. 

Alex Simpson (04:15.166)
Okay, we'll sort of go back around to him later because this is kind of like looking back on it, like where the Lord started kind of opening doors for me. So Ed Newton in 2018, yeah, it would be 2018, was the first Gener8 camp that I went to. And then the next summer I went to Gener8 and that one was in Chicago. It was another mission space camp.

But yeah, I like went on these trips in high school and I always like was involved. My senior year, I started on the video team at my church which was like one camera, a PTZ camera and like two channels of streaming was what I was doing but I thought it was the coolest thing ever. And I was going to college at that point. Like I was like committed to Wichita State University for tech theater.

Bailee Wishart (04:55.914)
Oh, cool.

Bailee Wishart (05:03.01)
There you go.

Alex Simpson (05:11.414)
And I was like, you know, if the theater thing just doesn't work or if I'm in between gigs, like I can always work at a church. But it was never like a serious thing that I ever considered. I was like, you know, churches have tech, churches have sound consoles. That's kind of what I do. So like, if I'm like in between my theater gigs, like that's always a fallback that I can have. The Lord was planned to be. It was a plan B at the time, but little did I know.

Bailee Wishart (05:11.913)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (05:19.447)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (05:28.959)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (05:33.098)
Yeah, like a backup option. Plan B.

Bailee Wishart (05:38.527)
I love it.

Alex Simpson (05:40.898)
So I got to college, I'm from Oklahoma, so it's about two hours away to Wichita State. And I struggled very hard to find a church community while I was there. I visited a few churches, like my first couple of weeks of freshman year. Like I was trying to do the church shopping thing, which is difficult. And it's even more difficult to do by yourself

Bailee Wishart (05:41.909)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (05:54.986)
Yeah, it's hard in college.

Bailee Wishart (06:07.522)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (06:10.55)
The friends that I made in college were not necessarily churchgoers. And so I was trying to find a church group community thing on my own, which is intimidating and it's scary and all of the things. about midway through my freshman year, I kind of just stopped going to church. I was still active somewhat in my faith. I was like reading my Bible occasionally and listening to worship music occasionally, but it was just like a rough couple of months. And then halfway through my freshman year,

Bailee Wishart (06:38.547)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (06:47.054)
Hmm.

Bailee Wishart (06:56.608)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (07:02.082)
COVID happened. So I got back home. Like I was a second semester freshman when this happened.  I had applied to be one of the technical staff at Generate. For the summer of 2020. Yeah, for, yeah, because I needed a job and I was like, it's a summer job and it's tech-based and I love Generate. Like it was, it was a great option. So I applied and I got it and I was supposed to be a lighting designer the summer of 2020. Obviously, can't, could not happen. So I did not go.

Bailee Wishart (08:04.802)
that camp that you went to. Oh, cool.

Alex Simpson (08:28.078)
Also, I would have absolutely died being a lighting designer at that moment because I knew almost nothing about lighting. Which would have been interesting. But so I applied my freshman year for the summer of 2020. Summer 2020 didn't happen. I went back to school my sophomore year and it was all online. Still was not in a church community. I was very sporadically.

Bailee Wishart (08:28.576)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (08:35.459)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (08:45.965)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (08:51.602)
And are you, are you back in Wichita at this point doing school online? Are you doing school online from Oklahoma? Oh, wow.

Alex Simpson (08:55.638)
Yes, I am back in Wichita doing online school in my dorm, which it was interesting. There was some hybrid classes, but essentially I was in my dorm doing classes. And that the summer, if you're a theater major or like any arts major, the summer between your sophomore and junior year is kind of when you start to look for like professional internships, because like you want.

Bailee Wishart (09:02.178)
That's so hard.

Bailee Wishart (09:09.717)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (09:22.636)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (09:22.99)
to have job opportunities when you graduate. And so I was looking for like legit theater internships and summer stock and stuff like that. And I was not really getting any bites, but I kept getting emails from YM360 being like, hey, we have spots open, would you be interested in coming back? Like, we hired you last summer, so we hire you again this summer. And I was like,

Bailee Wishart (09:51.362)
right.

Alex Simpson (09:52.334)
straight up ignoring those emails. I was like, I attempted to do this last year, it didn't happen, I'm not doing it again. I need to do like theater things. So I got rejected from the last of my applications for any like theater internships. This was around April. So like, if you think about it, summer camps start in like May-ish, like late May, April at this point. And

Bailee Wishart (09:56.844)
Dang.

Bailee Wishart (10:18.154)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (10:21.338)
I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna work at home, I guess, this summer. And then I get an email from YM360 being like, hey, we have one technical staff position that we have not hired yet. Would you want to get on for an interview? It'd be an expedited interview process. It would be different from the position that we originally hired you for. So that could be a deal breaker for you, but it would be for what's called our visual producer position. And so I was like, sure.

Bailee Wishart (10:43.842)
Mmm.

Alex Simpson (10:51.266)
Why not? What could it hurt? I don't have a job for the summer. I could not hurt anything to talk to these guys. So I ended up getting the job. I had about a month to kind of just like get all my stuff together, pack my life into a suitcase for three months and go to Birmingham, Alabama. Cause that's where the camp is based.

Bailee Wishart (10:57.214)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (11:16.555)
Wow.

Alex Simpson (11:17.854)
So essentially what the visual producer position was is camp videographer, camp photographer, LED wall person and ProPresenter, all wrapped into one position. It was a trunk of a position, but because theater and live event are so different, I had never touched an LED wall. I had only barely touched a camera.

Bailee Wishart (11:29.09)
Ha ha.

I love it. You're speaking my language. Ha ha.

Bailee Wishart (11:45.422)
Wow.

Alex Simpson (11:47.963)
I did not know what ProPresenter was.

Bailee Wishart (11:53.undefined)
I love it.

Alex Simpson (11:53.718)
And like at all, I did not even know ProPresenter was a thing. And I get to Birmingham and first day of training comes around and I'm very nervous. I'm like, okay, so they're gonna teach me how to like do all the stuff and they hand me a computer and they hand me five road cases worth of LED. And they said, put it together. I said, what do you mean? And so I was like, are you gonna teach me? And he was like, no.

Bailee Wishart (12:14.094)
You're like, how?

Alex Simpson (12:23.734)
you can figure it out. I was like, all right, let's start figuring it out. So I went over to the good old YouTube and I said, Pixel Flex, Nelly DeWalt, how to. And I learned how to put it together. Luckily a production company came the next day and I was like, grab it. But I put it together on my own.

Bailee Wishart (12:39.499)
Oh my gosh.

Thank you, Google.

Bailee Wishart (12:49.442)
That's impressive.

Alex Simpson (12:50.986)
It was a really good learning experience for me to just kind of be thrown into it. But yeah, I did that summer. It was an amazing summer. I met a lot of really great people. It was a hard summer. It's hard to be in a different city every week for 10 weeks. There's obviously some spiritual warfare that happens with that because the enemy knows what you're trying to do and he wants to discourage the people that are trying to like bring...

Bailee Wishart (13:09.643)
I can imagine.

Bailee Wishart (13:17.067)
Right?

Alex Simpson (13:19.582)
like these youths to Christ and it's just, it's a difficult thing to do. But I had an incredible summer and about halfway through it was like, okay, this is what like I need to be doing. This is absolutely my love. Like this is, I hadn't felt that way about like a vocation or like a job before in my entire life. And at that point I was like researching, I was like, okay, do I transfer schools? Do I?

Bailee Wishart (13:23.711)
Mmm.

Bailee Wishart (13:32.526)
That's awesome.

Bailee Wishart (13:41.56)
Wow.

Alex Simpson (13:47.79)
drop out, like I'm halfway through college. Like I'm none of the tech people that I know finished college or started college. And so there was a lot of conversations about that. It was decided that I would take the next semester and try and just figure something out. I ended up just sticking with college and doing that, but I found the Life.Church internship and I...

Bailee Wishart (13:56.438)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (14:16.064)
awesome.

Alex Simpson (14:16.322)
had grown up around Life.Church. It was literally across the street from my, like the Life, like the head honcho central campus was on the street from my house. And I growing up was like, Life.Church, that's a mega church. I'm not gonna do that. And there was Life.Church in my college town. And when I got back to school, I was like, I need to find a church. And I know that Life.Church is a good church because I heard some things about it.

Bailee Wishart (14:24.79)
The main campus, yeah.

Bailee Wishart (14:35.166)
Hahaha!

Alex Simpson (14:46.25)
I went and I immediately started serving. That was the first thing I did. I was like, I still don't know a ton about tech and I wanna get back there. So I started out as a lighting volunteer. And throughout my junior year, I started just working my way up. I got really into lighting. I ended up being able to do videos, so like pro presenter and camera switching. And then I ended up starting to produce services, just as a volunteer. So.

Bailee Wishart (14:51.undefined)
Wow.

Bailee Wishart (14:56.674)
That's cool.

Bailee Wishart (15:10.126)
It's awesome.

Bailee Wishart (15:14.494)
Really cool. Wow.

Alex Simpson (15:15.842)
That's what I did. I did it all four services on Sunday and on Wednesday nights for youth. That's just what I did my junior year. And I ended up getting the Life.Church internship at the central campus. So I was a broadcast support intern. And so I was on broadcast support team, helping out with like video broadcast stuff, video production stuff.

Bailee Wishart (15:36.334)
school.

Alex Simpson (15:45.582)
Um, anything that was like live-esque is what I was doing. Cause there was like a, like product, like a creative media team that did like a lot of post production, like editing stuff, like filming for videos. I was on like the live production team. So got to learn grand MA too. I got to learn, um, a whole bunch of different systems, pro presenter very heavily. Um.

Bailee Wishart (15:51.975)
score.

Bailee Wishart (15:58.348)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (16:03.662)
That's cool.

Alex Simpson (16:12.758)
raw systems, like all of that kind of stuff. I'm sorry, my Teams notifications keep going off. I'm gonna mute.

Bailee Wishart (16:20.523)
It's all good. Honestly, I kept thinking they were my team's notifications. So that is fair.

Alex Simpson (16:24.282)
But yeah, I did the Life.Church internship for six months. So I took the first semester of my senior year off. I did online school while I was doing the internship. And then I went back to school for second semester so that I could graduate. And while I was there, I was a remote contractor for them as a production assistant. So basically I would like coordinate between teams, like if they needed to use the auditorium space, I would help set up.

Bailee Wishart (16:46.839)
That's cool.

Alex Simpson (16:52.874)
like events and stuff, volunteer appreciation things. I loved it. But yeah, and then going a little bit back into the internship, there's a all staff event called Family Reunion. And we contracted some technical staff out for that. And the lighting director at CCB at the time was the person doing our lighting.

And so I got to meet with him and talk to him. And that's how I followed CCV. So I followed CCV around my senior year. I was looking for a job at that point because that's what you do your senior year of college. You're like, hey, I need a job after I graduate. So CCV posted a thing about December that they were looking for production directors. And I read that application, or I read the job description. I was like, that absolutely sounds like me. Absolutely.

Bailee Wishart (17:23.641)
Oh, cool.

Bailee Wishart (17:33.346)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (17:37.976)
Haha.

Alex Simpson (17:51.398)
sounds like something that I would thrive doing. So I applied in January, it was a long application process, but eventually I got hired in June, late June of this year and moved out. And that's where I have been. I am now a production manager at a CCB campus and I'm loving it. I'm still learning that, I mean, that's just what you do as a technical staff, but...

Bailee Wishart (17:51.542)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (18:08.332)
Love it.

Alex Simpson (18:20.542)
I'm absolutely loving it. So that's kind of, it's a really long winded journey of how I got here. But like looking back, it's like, there's so many teeny little doors, like three or four years ago that like I would have never thought would have opened. Yeah. Also the side, cause I forgot.

Bailee Wishart (18:22.262)
Yeah, that's awesome.

Bailee Wishart (18:35.444)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (18:43.486)
Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a lot of Bob Ross. Oh, I was gonna say, bought like happy little accidents, but keep going. Like, what are you gonna say? Yeah.

Alex Simpson (18:49.718)
Yes, a small aside because I forgot to add it. It's important. So the Ed Newton pastor that preached my junior year at South Padre Island, Texas, when I was on tour on staff, I went to the South Padre Island, Texas camp and Ed Newton was the speaker. And that was the week that I was like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Also, he preached Colossians my junior year.

Bailee Wishart (19:00.983)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (19:10.87)
That's so cool.

Bailee Wishart (19:15.926)
That's awesome.

Alex Simpson (19:16.406)
and he preached Ephesians that year. And I took notes like in my Bible both years and the books are right next to each other. And so like I had written in 2018 under my Colossians and now in Ephesians it says, generate 2022. And so it was just kind of like a cool little call back. The Lord knows what he's, but yeah, it's all of those like tiny little things that like led me to where I am now.

Bailee Wishart (19:25.57)
That's crazy.

Bailee Wishart (19:34.21)
That's so cool.

Bailee Wishart (19:38.42)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (19:45.693)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (19:46.443)
Look back on.

Bailee Wishart (19:49.27)
Well, it totally reminds me of that verse where it's like, like man will make plans, but the Lord will direct his steps. And it's like, it totally sounds like, it's like, okay, like you had a plan going one way and God just kind of put little steps to kind of guide you. And it reminds me of like, like when you're driving a car, you're not like swinging the steering wheel left or right. You're like making tiny little adjustments. And it's like, he first kind of put you in a position where you were like, hey, there is production stuff related to church, maybe outside of.

what I've experienced at my smaller Presbyterian church, but also at your Presbyterian church, you were diving into theater and getting more into that. And then you go to college for that, but then the stuff you're learning at college is kind of in the same-ish realm as what you're doing. But then God was like, hey, I wanna have you a little bit more of adjustment. Let's get you some live experience. Hey, you're gonna meet this guy from CCV. Hey, you know, like all of that stuff. Like, it just sounds like God was really like, okay, like from like the moment that you like,

first got into theater, God was like, I'm gonna turn this into something completely, like not different, I guess, but like, I'm gonna take this as a springboard and launch Alex into like something really cool. So that's powerful.

Alex Simpson (20:53.58)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (21:02.575)
We're gonna go through a little white path. Yeah, it's super cool. And it's really one of those things that I kind of recently just saw all the pieces kind of go, and so I'm like, whoa, like I'm seeing that now. Like I wasn't seeing it in the moment. I would see like little things, but now I'm like sitting here, I'm in Arizona. I'm like in a completely different state and I'm like looking back on my life and I'm like, whoa, that's like so awesome.

Bailee Wishart (21:14.348)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (21:19.01)
For sure.

Bailee Wishart (21:29.554)
Yeah, that's really cool. And now you're by In-N-Out, which is a big deal as well. God put you by In-N-Out. Ha ha ha.

Alex Simpson (21:34.947)
Yeah. Yeah, it is a big deal. Like McDonald's fries better but in and out burgers. So good.

Bailee Wishart (21:43.894)
That's fair. They're top-notch. Well, sweet. Well, and I know you've been, so you've been here for a bit. You've been in your new position as production manager at CCD for a little over a month now. And I know that there are some things that obviously you gotta keep on lock. So I'm not prying for non-public information, but is there anything coming up that you are allowed to talk about that you're excited to be working on in the coming months at CCV?

Alex Simpson (22:14.478)
Honestly, there's not any like project projects that I'm like working on. I'm really just focused on like expanding my knowledge and stuff. I have a really big background in visual and lighting and part of my job is like partnering with sound and helping make that like part of the experience.

Bailee Wishart (22:14.707)
What are you up to now?

Bailee Wishart (22:25.774)
For sure.

Bailee Wishart (22:37.291)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (22:38.918)
And I know very little about sound. And so my goal and like my project per se is to just kind of dive in and like figure everything out. Like figure out sound, like how does the band function? How do my engineers like want me to set things up? Like just kind of getting that partnership going. That's really what I'm working on. Also, obviously it's September when we're filming this.

Bailee Wishart (22:50.466)
That's cool.

Bailee Wishart (23:03.821)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (23:07.531)
And it's right about the time that Christmas prep starts happening. So just starting to think about Christmas and all of the fun things that happened with that season.

Bailee Wishart (23:12.685)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (23:18.282)
Yes, Christmas at CCV is very fun and I'm excited for you to be a part of it because you're going to make it more fun and that's going to be awesome. I love Christmas.

Alex Simpson (23:24.142)
Yes, I'm very excited. I love Christmas. So I'm ready to kind of dive deep and just be one of those Christmas people that starts thinking about Christmas in like October. But that's just gonna be life. It's just thinking about Christmas all the time. And then once Christmas is over, you start thinking about Easter.

Bailee Wishart (23:37.921)
I love it.

Bailee Wishart (23:42.546)
Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, and seriously, so for you, and this is a little different because when I worked at a church, it was a collegiate church. And so Christmas was a big deal, but it definitely was not a major point of focus just because so many students were at home with their families. So most of our membership and guests were, Christmas was just a smaller service for us, even though it's technically a big one. So for you, your experience working with churches that, aren't a primarily college demographic. Is it, does that dampen Christmas? Like, if you're thinking about Christmas starting in like September, October, is it like when you are off, I guess if you can turn it off, like are you like, I wanna go get hot cocoa and I wanna go see Christmas lights and I wanna go do this and like get involved in the Christmas stuff or are you like, I need a break from Christmas because my work is Christmas right now. Like, what does that look like for you?

Alex Simpson (24:31.042)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (24:45.262)
I'm such a Christmas person. I will go look at Christmas. I will listen to Christmas music, unironically in the middle of summer. I love decorating for Christmas. I think the, really the thing that I like sit in during the Christmas season, especially like on church tech, is like, there's like big technical aspects that need to get done that aren't like, load-ins and stuff like that. They are directly related to the Christmas season, but they're not like,

Bailee Wishart (24:48.735)
I love it.

Bailee Wishart (24:54.859)
I love it.

Bailee Wishart (25:12.295)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (25:14.414)
Christmasy, if that makes sense. But like when we start getting into like programming of everything, but like this recent Christmas, like last year was the first like real big Christmas event that I had been a part of. And just, I don't know, just to be able to sit backstage or sit in the booth and just witness people. And I saw this during Easter, like.

Bailee Wishart (25:17.261)
Right.

Alex Simpson (25:42.106)
Majority Easter, but Christmas as well. It's like just to have that impact on people and to just have people come in and just like they may or may not go to church the entirety of the year. That's like my big mission with big holidays that revolve around church. There's a lot of people that come into the church building that would never normally be there just because it's Christmas or.

Bailee Wishart (26:10.976)
Right.

Alex Simpson (26:11.542)
because it's Easter. And so that's my goal in doing Christmas stuff is to be able to give those people a calm, cohesive environment, non-distracting, that they can just experience the love of Jesus, even if it's just for that one night, and then praying over them and hopefully seeing them again in the future. But just like...

Bailee Wishart (26:30.504)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (26:36.469)
Right.

Alex Simpson (26:41.25)
to be able to have that environment, to be able to foster that is like my goal for Christmas. And then there's like my personal Christmas where I'm like, I'm gonna watch some of those movies. Just cause they're, so I try to really hard and then it's one of those things just working in ministry in general. Like you never want your job to negate your faith because once those two,

Bailee Wishart (26:50.059)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (26:55.716)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (27:09.493)
Right.

Alex Simpson (27:10.698)
become one, it gets really hard to either do your job or it's really hard to maintain your faith and something has to give. And so just having to figure out the balance between like your own personal faith and like why you do things and your job is a constant struggle when you're in ministry. Just cause yeah, it's really easy for them to become the same thing.

Bailee Wishart (27:18.43)
Right. That's such a good point.

Bailee Wishart (27:33.71)
for sure.

Bailee Wishart (27:40.052)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (27:40.586)
It's like, it's good that your own personal faith is involved in your job, but also you need to protect your heart and protect yourself spiritually and physically and all of.

Bailee Wishart (27:51.966)
Right. It's like the relationship needs to be so much more. Yeah. That's a really great point. I love that. And I think that's so key. Cause yeah, I think if you, I mean, that's why a lot of people working in ministry do experience burnout, you know, is just, the thing that is the most life-giving thing in your life suddenly becomes, you know, tasks and projects and...

Alex Simpson (27:55.839)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (28:21.59)
Um, you know, it's, you know, Jesus, Jesus wants a 24 seven relationship, not a nine to five relationship. So, um, I can imagine that that's. That that's where I think, and not again, they're, you know, people in, in working ministry do experience burnout, but I think the ones that don't are the people that have mastered exactly what you're talking about, which is like the separation of the job from the relationship, so that's key. That's really cool. And I think, I think even just

Alex Simpson (28:44.189)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (28:50.21)
kind of segueing into, because I love to even just kind of talk about maybe some creative faith takeaways, just for the kind of latter half of our episode, but you've got obviously a lot of experience both from internship and now your career, working in that environment, working with churches, I think specifically that have both massive influence and plenty of technical expertise and training available.

Um, and, uh, we've talked about this. This is something you're really passionate about where there's, we have the secular atmosphere with creatives that were, you know, creatives are just vying to be the best, the best at what they do. And often that comes at the expense of maybe holding others back from the skills and talents of the job, right? I've learned this, I've mastered this. This is for me, I'm going to be the go-to person for this. Um,

And so how do you believe that creatives in the church can fight against that culture of gatekeeping information in order to really see the Big C church as a whole thrive?

Alex Simpson (29:54.07)
Yeah, that, I mean, in general, that's something that I'm super passionate about because like when I was trying to make that transition from theater world to production world, there was a lot of people that I was reaching out to, there was a company that I had reached out to at one point trying to do live event stuff and they ghosted me. They like, I got through like the whole process and then they never called me back. And so it's like, there's a lot of...

Bailee Wishart (30:17.015)
Mm.

Alex Simpson (30:22.078)
"Well, if I have to teach you, then it's not efficient for me and it's not worth it." And you just kind of have to learn on your own. But a lot of, especially in tech, like live tech, like there are some people that can gain access to some of that equipment just on their own, but a lot of that equipment is like really expensive and very specialized. And so it's like, you have to be in that moment. So.

Bailee Wishart (30:28.695)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (30:46.06)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (30:48.846)
I think churches have a very special position on that because there's a lot of churches with some fairly new tech that is industry standard even across secular environments, like concerts and stuff. There are some things that happen at Taylor Swift concerts or the Super Bowl halftime show that on a base level, you can learn in a church environment. And so...

Bailee Wishart (31:06.88)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (31:15.394)
That's really cool.

Alex Simpson (31:17.142)
There's a unique opportunity to help kind of train people in that environment, but also like knowing that people are in church to like worship and do that kind of stuff. So it's like being able to foster that relationship, but also like if people are truly genuinely interested in what you're doing, then like show them the booth. I make it a point to like look out for people in the auditorium that are like, trying to peek over top and look at the console or look at what's happening on my side of things and invite them into that space. Be like, hey, are you interested in what's happening? Just be like, hey, you're totally welcome to come back here and see what we're doing. I'll answer any questions that you may have about what's happening back here. And I just think that that's a really neat opportunity that we have because it's really accessible.

Bailee Wishart (31:57.768)
Yeah, that's cool.

Bailee Wishart (32:08.45)
That's awesome.

Alex Simpson (32:16.062)
and just like the volunteers in general, like any, you can take it as far as you want. I have some volunteers that are just really happy to like be there on a Sunday and they really enjoy what they're doing. And then I have some volunteers that are like, I really wanna know like why this does the thing that it does and why it's all connected and all of that kind of stuff. And like, I'm like, able to give that information. I don't, I know that it is a very large struggle to like well, I'm at the top of my game. And if I give this information to somebody else, they could take it and go further than me and potentially like take my job. But that's kind of, and I've heard this from a lot of people at CCB. It's like, you want to be able to train your volunteers enough so that they can take your job. Like that's kind of the point. Like we, if they're interested, that's what the Lord is calling them to do. Like

Bailee Wishart (33:09.351)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (33:12.711)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (33:17.238)
Don't impede that. That's not your job to do. Train them. Offload any information that you can. Help them grow in the areas that they wanna grow in because you absolutely have no idea where that could take them in the future. Even if it's not at your church, but just from a miles away, even going off into a secular environment and having that like...

Bailee Wishart (33:20.909)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (33:36.294)
Right. Well, and it's one.

Alex Simpson (33:43.138)
church spirit and then being able to spread that in just like a secular environment as well. So that's, it's just, give your job away. Nah.

Bailee Wishart (33:52.238)
That's a great point. Yeah, no, and it's one of those things too, where it's like God's gonna take somebody where he wants them to go, whether you like it or not. And so you either have the opportunity to be somebody that either held them back or help them go where God wanted them to go, but either way they're gonna get there. So might as well cooperate with the Holy Spirit in what that person, what he's doing in that person's life. And I think you make such a great point. It's like we...

with the church being a place where it does provide a lot of runway for people that maybe might not have access to gain these skills in a secular environment, give them the opportunity to learn that. And if God puts them in a place where they can use those skills in a secular environment, then that's a place where the gospel gets put somewhere where it wasn't before. You know, it's like if I'm sure I'm sure there's people that have, like you said, worked on the Super Bowl halftime show or are at a, you know,

doing production at a major concert like Taylor Swift or Beyonce or something like that. And they learn those skills in a church and they might be side by side, shoulder to shoulder with somebody that doesn't know the gospel and just be doing life on life with somebody for a production that big, which probably is months and months and months and months of work, side by side together. They get to experience Jesus through somebody that learned it at a church.

And so I think that, yeah, you really hit the nail on the head there of just kind of both ends of let's help people go where God wants them to go. And let's see them sore, even if that comes at rest to ourselves, because ultimately it's about seeing kingdom growth, not just personal growth. So I think, I think that's key. And, and I think specifically kind of toning in on like, let's rewind it all way back to maybe what you're talking about, the person who is

peaking in on your booth or they have an interest level. And I know that the learning process itself, and not that I think we're always learning. I think the moment you stop learning is the moment that you stop being effective, to be honest. But I think specifically looking at church production in the AVL department, like it can so often zero in on technical skill or like program knowledge. And I...

Bailee Wishart (36:13.898)
can't speak for everybody, but I know for myself and many of the creatives that I know, it can be hard for creatives to focus on practicals when all we wanna do is just go out and create. I don't wanna be watching YouTube tutorials, I just wanna go shoot, stuff like that. So what is your recommendation for creatives that maybe are interested in those more technical kind of outlets such as audio video lighting who are maybe still trying to get the hang of the technical side of their positions?

Alex Simpson (36:24.962)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (36:44.182)
but how do they keep the creativity flowing, their excitement levels high, while doing the maybe not so fun part of the job, like studying equipment or doing technical training, stuff like that.

Alex Simpson (36:56.258)
Yeah, I mean, that's a tough part of it. Just like reading manuals, because there's been so many people that I've talked to, it's just like, oh yeah, I read manuals for fun. Or like if I'm, oh, well, did you read the manual? I was like, no, I haven't read the manual. That's not what I do on my free time. But just like, you have to get into the nitty gritty of it at some point. Like that's the not fun part of it.

Bailee Wishart (37:06.358)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (37:12.11)
Hahaha

Bailee Wishart (37:19.579)
Right.

Alex Simpson (37:26.414)
Or just like what I do, and this may not be like completely recommended, but when I was working on learning GrandMA, I had my mentor create a show file for me. So it was completely separate. I couldn't screw anything up. And I just kind of push buttons until something happened. So I mean, if you have a space that you can work by trial and error, and that's just how you work, then that's...

Bailee Wishart (37:45.527)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (37:50.402)
That's awesome.

Alex Simpson (37:55.818)
amazing. Or just like, just find a way or find somebody that like is genuinely like good at communicating. Like how this works, because there's so many different learning styles. Because there are some people that can be like, Oh, yeah, I was told to do this step by step and I did it. And then there's people like me that can be told things to do step by step. But until I physically do it with my hands, it will not stick in my brain. So just like,

Bailee Wishart (38:12.044)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (38:26.026)
you have the opportunity to get your hands on it, get your hands on it, get your hands on a piece of lesser tech. Cause like GrandMA3 or GrandMA2, those are big industry standard consoles, but if your church or your, what you're learning on is like a Vista, a Jans Vista console, stuff's gonna translate. So like learn what you have access to as well as you can, because like on the base level,

Bailee Wishart (38:40.712)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (38:54.754)
patching is the same or the concept of like the creative aspect of how lighting happens is the same or I say lighting because that's like my main focus but like regardless of what you have if you have a whole bunch of par cans and some gels learn how to use that creatively because even if you have the super expensive like state-of-the-art tech if you know how to make it work.

Bailee Wishart (39:03.319)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (39:06.825)
Right.

Alex Simpson (39:23.906)
but you can't make it look good. It's not doing what you want to be doing it effectively. So just, I mean, going back to the basis of learning how to like create and just like using what you have available to you to become as best as you can at that one thing. And then if you have the opportunity to move up to like a larger console, get all of the information that, and you're always learning because there's always gonna be a newer, better piece of tech.

Bailee Wishart (39:33.197)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (39:52.525)
Right.

Alex Simpson (39:53.87)
So you're never gonna be there. There's never, especially in AVL and like photography or anything that involves the technology, you're never gonna be there, wherever there you think it is. Like there's always a new piece of technology coming out and they're coming out like quickly. And so you're always gonna be learning. And so there's, that's my main encouragement to people that are like, oh, well, I'll never get it figured out. I was like, I don't have it figured out.

Bailee Wishart (39:55.325)
Exactly.

Bailee Wishart (40:06.827)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (40:14.414)
Yeah. Yep.

Alex Simpson (40:23.922)
There's no way I'm ever going to get it figured out. And so just like being in that learning slash growth mindset constantly is like the biggest piece of advice that I can give.

Bailee Wishart (40:27.936)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (40:37.358)
That's awesome. Yeah, and I think, I know a lot of your examples related to, you know, lighting, cause that's what you're used to, but I think, yeah, you're so right, it translates. Like, if you know and understand what exposure does when you do the little slidey thing with your finger on your iPhone, it'll prepare you so much when you have a DSLR or a mirrorless camera in your hand, you know? And you might have to learn new terms like.

like ISO or show to speed or whatever, but ultimately you're like, okay, I could tell that something's overexposed because I learned what overexposure looked like on my iPhone or hey, I was working in audio and I understood what gain and reverb did and now I'm at this level and gain and reverb are still doing the same things. I just have different tools to manage it with now that are maybe a little bit more fine tuned. And I think that's what it is. It's like the more technology comes out, the more you're learning.

Alex Simpson (41:22.199)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (41:28.002)
The more you get to really fine tune the little details of what you've been learning all along, but if you never ever, if you wait, if you wait until you have the right equipment in your hands to get that baseline knowledge, it's gonna be a beast to learn. It's kind of, you know, it reminds me of, yeah.

Alex Simpson (41:44.206)
Yeah, it's not like it's unlearnable, but it's, it's gonna, you're learning the basics on top of like learning the system, if that makes sense. So

Bailee Wishart (41:53.856)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (41:57.818)
Right. I mean, it's kind of like, like how much easier was it to learn algebra because you learned arithmetic in elementary school, you know, it's, it's the same, it's the same deal. It's like, okay, you could learn it all at once, but that's, that's a lot. You could take a couple steps and yeah, you're still going to have to learn a bunch and you're gonna have to study a bunch and you're not going to get things right away just because you spent time learning something ahead of time, but it's going to make it a little less painless, you know, so I think that's good. And yeah.

Alex Simpson (42:06.19)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (42:11.456)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (42:24.234)
Yeah. And I totally 100% agree with like your iPhone camera knowledge to like camera knowledge. Because that's such a great analogy. Because like, everybody has access to a phone everybody has access to a camera phone. And so it's like, that was brilliant. I just I wanted to like applaud you on that. That's a good one. I really like that.


Bailee Wishart (42:47.542)
Thank you. Well, and it's interesting too, because so I'm a part of a couple of different like online forums for church creatives. And even just today, it was a question of, I think someone had posted a question of what camera setups is your church using? And that was it. And so you get all of these different responses because there's so many churches of different sizes, different budgets, different experience. And, you know, I went in there and I was like, hey, my old church was on...

Canon C100s and a Sony FX6. And now I'm at another church and we're using all Varicams, you know?  And then I scroll all the way down and they're like, like three iPhones and Switcher Studio was one of the answers. And it's like, okay, like there is a church out there using three iPhones and Switcher Studio. They're working with what they've got. And as they gain experience in that, there's totally room to like,

like continue growing in that, you know? And so I think, yeah, start in small with what you got. So even just with like the iPhone analogy, that was, I mean, that's even just a practical thing of their churches, maybe people listening to this episode right now who they're working with iPhones right now. And it's like, you can learn a ton of the stuff that you need to learn that are being used in churches like Elevation or Bethel that like, you can do.

Alex Simpson (43:47.991)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (43:56.023)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (44:17.162)
with the basic equipment in front of you, it's just a matter of, are you dedicated to learning it? And I think specifically thinking like with volunteers, that's so key too, right? Like volunteers, and you've even shared this with me too, it's less about technical knowledge. And I mean, obviously if you have a volunteer that's like, yeah, I have so much experience with this equipment and this is what I do for my day job.

Alex Simpson (44:22.487)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (44:44.738)
Can I come help? You're like, absolutely. But if there's somebody that's like, I've never touched a lighting console in my life, but it looks cool and I love our church. Can I help? Like, that's really all you need, right?

Alex Simpson (44:58.186)
Yeah, because like even at like at a base level, running things, it's just like, what can I do to make it cater kind of to that person or just like to the situation, I think is a better way to say that. Because like on a base level, ProPresenter is like PowerPoint essentially. And all if I do my job right on the beginning of the week, it should just be space bar

Bailee Wishart (45:00.107)
So.

Bailee Wishart (45:13.294)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (45:21.043)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (45:27.886)
clicking through slides. But like, again, if you start out with that, and then in a moment of the Holy Spirit, the band just starts to do whatever. Like, you know the ways that, okay, they're going back to the chorus, so I'm gonna go back to the chorus, instead of just slowly working that up. And so really, like...

Bailee Wishart (45:30.764)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (45:47.158)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (45:53.01)
especially when I get volunteers that say like, yeah, I really love our church. I think that this is interesting. I have no idea what I'm doing. Like my encouragement to them is like, I will teach you all that you need to know to be successful. And if you wanna know more, I'm so happy to let you know like what I know. But I will teach you enough that you know that you're successful and it's not gonna be a scary thing for you. Because that is one of those things that's like, if you wanna get involved like, but I don't wanna mess up the lighting because then...

Bailee Wishart (46:09.675)
Right.

Alex Simpson (46:22.402)
that everybody would know.

Yes, everybody may know for two seconds, but like also I want you to be as successful as you possibly can. And one of my like main like quotes that I say is like, if I tell you to do something, like push a button and it's wrong time to push the button, that's on me. That's not on you. And so you can blame me because that's my job. It will never be on you. If I tell you, hey, do this, and it's absolutely the wrong decision, that's me.

Bailee Wishart (46:44.995)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (46:48.653)
Right.

Alex Simpson (46:53.758)
I will own up to that. You will never have to own up to that yourself. And so just like taking that barrier off, because it can be scary, especially lighting, they're very visual things. Like the whole congregation sees it. But everybody messes up, we're human. At the end of the day, if the gospel is presented, that's what I care most about.

Bailee Wishart (46:57.959)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (47:11.65)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (47:17.686)
That's so good. Yeah. And I'd love to, I know we're kind of hitting the end of our time here. So I wanna wrap just even kind of really narrowing in, I think on this volunteer aspect, right? Cause I think volunteers are what make churches thrive. Like, and no matter the size of the church. And I think production teams, especially on a volunteer level, can have different struggles arise no matter the size or budget of a church.

Um, so like volunteers, maybe at smaller churches can feel like they're dealing with limited resources or expertise. Um, but volunteers at larger churches, uh, however, might feel like they're maybe a smaller, more, more insignificant part of a mission that they really want to serve at the best of their capacity. And I know specifically we've been talking about like CCV life church, like churches that provide an example of, um, relatively right, cause I mean, there's, there's always gonna, there's always a bigger fish, but

relatively churches that have a larger membership base, larger production budget. So I really wanna kind of hone in on that side of the pendulum swing of churches and volunteers. So what would be your encouragement to a creative that's maybe at an entry level production position, right? Maybe they just started and it's a big church, big thing, like big production, they might have a very small role. What's your encouragement to someone

on that level who's trying to find their place in a much larger team. And instead of feeling like there are just a cog in the machine.

Alex Simpson (48:51.01)
Yeah, two things. First thing, I know that a lot of especially larger churches, if you're new, they'll start you on a more base level kind of task or position. Take that position and learn it so well that you are the best person at that one position that you can possibly be. Have pride in what you're doing.

Bailee Wishart (49:07.869)
Mm-hmm.

Bailee Wishart (49:18.572)
good.

Alex Simpson (49:19.09)
If it's pushing space bar over and over again to make sure the lyrics show up on the screen, do it with the most incredible timing that you possibly can. Like make that your heart and soul and your worship. That is like the number one thing that I can say. Like that is how you are serving your church. Because if you're pressing go on space bar to make the lyrics pop up on the screen, that is allowing people.

Bailee Wishart (49:41.815)
Good.

Alex Simpson (49:47.35)
to worship that's allowing people to know what's coming next. It's allowing the band to know what's coming next. So do that with the best of your ability. And then the second thing is ask questions. I know that there are probably, there's possibly some churches out there that their leaders may not be as receptive to just like asking a whole bunch of questions too. But if you have somebody that is willing to like mentor you, take advantage of that.

absolutely ask so many questions, all of the questions. Because like I would not be where I am right now without doing that. I started out essentially as a volunteer when I was at Life.Church. I started out on a Jans Vista lighting console at a smaller satellite campus of Life.Church. And that's what I did. I learned and I did the best that I could at that position. And then they were like,

Bailee Wishart (50:17.923)
Good.

Bailee Wishart (50:41.324)
Mm-hmm.

Alex Simpson (50:45.566)
We had somebody call out, we would you be willing to run Purpose Center? I was like, yeah, sure. So I knew both of those positions really well. And then going up and just like, hey, we need you to cover this or hey, we need, would you be willing to learn this? Like, absolutely just start, it's gonna be a slow process at the beginning. But my encouragement is when you know something well and you can take pride in it, it shows.

And then if you have the opportunity to be, hey, this is a new volunteer, we would love for you to show them what you've been doing. You can help grow that next team member that is wanting to learn. And so that's like, you're not just a cog in the wheel, you're a very important part of what is happening during the service. Because I've been in a position on staff where like, if there's not a volunteer in a position, it puts us in a more stressed out position.

Bailee Wishart (51:15.636)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (51:44.154)
things, it's like a domino effect, like the baseline of everything needs to get done. And even if it's a monotonous kind of task or you think that it is, like if it doesn't happen, it can be obvious sometimes. And so, but just, there's always gonna be somebody wanting to learn. And if you can know what you're doing to the best of your ability enough to teach somebody else, that's the...

Bailee Wishart (51:47.458)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (51:59.053)
Yeah.

Alex Simpson (52:10.982)
Again, cog in a wheel is kind of like a fun term because like each cog turns another cog that turns another one that turns another and it just keeps going. And so if one of them stops, then the rest of the chain behind them like doesn't function. And so just maintaining that health and that passion is like the best thing that I can like.

Bailee Wishart (52:20.128)
Right.

Bailee Wishart (52:33.472)
Right.

Alex Simpson (52:41.482)
and get out there and just be like, just be motivated. Be willing to learn and want to learn because it will always be learning.

Bailee Wishart (52:44.365)
Yeah.

Bailee Wishart (52:50.868)
Right.

Oh, that's so good. That's such a mic drop. Like, what a way to end, end the show. No, for real, cause I think I'm hearing like two things just like, and I think what's cool is like, this is all really great practical knowledge, but it's all like biblically based, you know, it's faithfulness with the little thing and the body needs every part to function. Like those two things really come in together.  as creatives, I think we have a responsibility to like, like take pride, not in a, not in a prideful way, but I think in a like, man, like, I have been chosen to be a part of this position, to do this job, like the Lord ultimately is entrusting me with this as my leadership is entrusting me with this. And I am gonna do this to the best of my ability because I'm doing it for the Lord first and foremost. And faithfulness in little things does really translate to faithfulness in the big eventually. And it's like, that's even kind of what you're talking about. It's like, yeah, you do this as a career right now, but it really did trickle down to, hey, how are you going to handle it as a first time volunteer on a smaller console in a smaller church congregation?

just trusting that God was gonna use you where you were at. So I think that's awesome. Such, like I said, such a baller way to end an episode. And so as we wrap, I just wanna thank you first and foremost just for coming onto the show. You have such incredible insight and wisdom. I'm really excited for our listeners to get to experience it. I'm excited for your volunteers to continue to get to experience it as you're really building the production team at, at your CCV location and, um, yeah, just looking forward to seeing continued to serve the kingdom in your, in your new role at CCV so thanks so much for being here, seriously.

Alex Simpson (54:57.442)
Yeah, thank you for inviting me. It's been great to kind of talk about that. This is like the stuff that itches my brain. And so to be able to kind of share that with a larger audience is just awesome. I love it.

Bailee Wishart (55:08.906)
Yes, absolutely. And speaking of larger audience to the listeners, as always, thank y'all so much for listening to the creative Christian podcast. If you like the content we're producing, please review and rate the podcast. It is the number one way to get this encouragement in front of other creatives just like you. Um, and that's about all we've got for the show today. So until next time, keep creating.